Time Magazine Interview

TIME Online: A 1999 interview on doomsday and the end of the world

Richard Abanes, Author of End-Time Visions The Road to Armageddon?
Transcript from Nov. 23, 1999

Timehost: We're talking with Richard Abanes, author of End-Time Visions: The Road to Armageddon. His book details various groups and individuals throughout history who have predicted an imminent end to the world. Thanks for being here.
Richard Abanes: Thanks for having me!

Timehost: Mr. Abanes was once a cult member, so the first question is . . .

colin555_2000 asks: What cult did you belong to, and what did you believe?
Richard Abanes: I was a member for a short while around 1983 of The Way International. The Way International was pseudo-Christian cult that used deception to recruit members and also for a short period of time stockpiled weapons. Fortunately nothing tragic occurred. The group now is fairly splintered and much smaller.

Hodon39 asks: Do you believe Edgar Cayce to be a valid prophet?
Richard Abanes: Absolutely not. He has already been proven wrong on numerous predictions. For example, he predicted worldwide devastation such as the upheaval of the Arctic and Antarctic and the shifting of poles would occur between 1958 to 1998. He also predicted that the southern portions of the Carolinas, Georgia, as well as San Francisco and Los Angeles would be destroyed within one generation of 1941, and that too has not occured. He also had some bizarre remedies for cancer, such as injecting serum made from rabbit blood and placing skinned rabbit pelts on women's breasts for breast cancer with the pelts still moist.

Timehost: I know that's a little hard to top, but what are some of the odder beliefs you've run across?
Richard Abanes: Heaven's Gate, the suicide cult in San Diego, was very odd. They believed a spaceship was picking them up very soon, and that's why they had to kill themselves—to board the ship. A near death experiencer felt that in the near future spaceships would be used to house human pods to save humanity. Many neo-Nazis and white supremacists feel that the end of the world is very near and will begin with an Armageddon-like race war between whites on one side and people of color and Jews on the other. In the end, the whites are supposed to win, exterminate Jews, and ship blacks back to Africa. This will usher in "God's Kingdom."

Hodon39 asks: Richard, have you read Conversations With God? And do you feel Neal Donald Walsh is starting a new cult with his Conversations With God books?
Richard Abanes: Well, I have not read Conversations with God, but I have breezed through some of the text. It's nothing new, and to say that he is starting a cult would be an overstatement. The use of the word "cult" must be reserved for true groups that have various characteristics which can be broken down into socially odd, psychologically deceptive, or theologically contrary to what the groups are claiming to be a part of. This book is simply gathering a huge following, like many best sellers dealing with spiritual issues. The question is, how do we know whether what this person (i.e. Walsh is saying is true?

Timehost: Well, how do we know that?
Richard Abanes: Well, we don't, and unlike other groups that may look to, at least, at the very least, some historical documents, this is an individual who says what he believes is so. Another way we can tell is by examining what the person is saying and analyzing whether it's logical or not. Most of the time, these popular books simply tell people what they want to believe, whether it's true or not.

Stamm444 asks: Are there any non-Christian cults predicting the apocalypse? Wouldn't that be strange, since the year 2000 is a Christian artifact.
Richard Abanes: Well, you have cultists and people in the New Age movement looking for an apocalypse in the near future. You have followers of Nostradamus looking for apocalypse in the near future. They certainly are not Christian, but like Christians, they long to see a final confrontation between good and evil in which good emerges triumphant. The difference between Christian endtimers and non-Christian endtimers is the deliverer—the savior that will come, and the final outcome.

sci_enthusiast asks: What is the most violent and dangerous cult, in your opinion?
Richard Abanes: I would say, without hesitation, members of the Christian Identity Movement. Which, by the way, is not "Christian" at all. It is a loosely knit worldwide network of white supremacists, neo-Nazis, Klansmen, and anti-Semites who have blended various Christian doctrines with racism and hate.

Timehost: As an aside, can you tell us about the Identity Movement's "dual creation" theory?
Richard Abanes: Yes—they believe that Adam and Eve were not the first people, but were the first white people, and persons of color also known as "mud people" were created as mistakes prior to the creation of Adam and Eve. They also believe Jews are the literal descendants of Satan.

Timehost: Isn't that special . . .
andrew93_2000 asks: Do you foresee the possibility of mass suicides among cultists at the time of the millennium?
Richard Abanes: Oh, it's a possibility, especially if someone's been looking forward to a big display of Armageddon and the end of the world, and it doesn't happen. They may not want to wait around much longer and check out of this world without Armageddon.

Timehost: Along the same lines . . .
andrew93_2000 asks: What will be the reaction of the Christian Millenarians when the new millennium starts and the Second Coming does not happen?
Richard Abanes: Well, first of all, you have to be very careful when you use the phrase "Christian Millenarians," because the vast majority of Christians are not looking for Jesus to return in the year 2000, although a significant number of what might be termed "unbalanced" believers are seeing a soon-to-occur apocalypse. These Christians will probably just rationalize why it didn't happen, make an excuse, do a recalculation, and wait for a few more years.

andrew93_2000 asks: In a recent X-Files show, the plot involved necromancy. Are there any cults out there who actually will try to raise the dead when the millennium arrives?
Richard Abanes: As an aside, I loved that episode! X-Files is one of my favorites. But speaking more realistically, I suppose there might be some who will try to do something like that. But that would be rare, first of all, because anyone holding to the Book of Revelation would understand that it's Christ alone who can raise the dead Secondly, the four horsemen are angels, not people. As another aside, I am so glad Scully and Mulder finally kissed.

Timehost: Someone in the chat room asked for a definition of apocalypse.
Richard Abanes: The word apocalypse comes from the first chapter of the Book of Revelation. It's a Greek word, actually a form of a Greek word, that means "unveiling." In fact, we get our word revelation from this Greek word, and the book of Revelation deals with the "unveiling" of Jesus Christ. That is why in bibles you will see it entitled the revelation of Jesus Christ. The book talks about the final unveiling to the entire world of the person of Jesus Christ.

scooter1234_99 asks: How do you feel about Gordon Scallion?
Richard Abanes: Gordon Michael Scallion is a self-proclaimed psychic. He has been wrong more times than I can count. He is certainly not psychic, and he is most famous for his prediction of a shifting of earth's poles. In order to make himself seem more accurate, he has often had to reinterpret his predictions to make them seem as if they came true. For example, he, in 1995, predicted that war would spread in Europe and a holy war would begin in the Middle East, and that we should watch Turkey. He claimed that he was correct in the whole prediction just because fifteen people were killed in a riot in Istanbul. He also used to publish a map of the U.S. that illustrated earth's new geological state by the year 2002. But in 1997, he replaced the map with a new date 2012. I guess he needed a little more time.

Timehost: We also have a question about James Von Praagh. What can you tell us about him?
Richard Abanes: Von Praagh is another "psychic" who says he can psychic-ly know things from spirit entities. He has been proven by a number of individuals to be more of a showman and clever talker. An excellent article debunking him can be retrieved from the Skeptic Magazine website.

Timehost: The Israeli authorities are very sensitive to endtime beliefs. Can you talk about that?
Richard Abanes: Well, unfortunately, you have a lot of pseudo-Christians and people who have adopted some Christian ideas who see the end sort of getting ticked-off at Jerusalem. Kind of like, since it's where the whole messiah thing started, it's where it's going to end. Many of these people are fairly radical in their views and might not hesitate to jump-start the end. Very much like what the X-Files portrayed.

Timehost: Two in a row . . .
VictoriaWinters99 asks: We have the bomb shelter ready. What are the most important items to stock? :-)
agrgas asks: what is your vision of what will happen in the new millennium?
Richard Abanes: First question: toilet paper. Second question: as for what I see . . . incredible technological advances beyond our wildest dreams . . . greatly extended life. . . deeper space travel. . . and what I wish I could be around for, really fast, very cool sports cars.

jem5_12 asks: Do you think an end is soon?
Richard Abanes: No.

Timehost: Except perhaps an end to this chat. We do have time for maybe one or two more questions.
demonthatsucks asks: Has the talk about the world ending in y2k caused any violence?
Richard Abanes: No, I don't think it's caused any violence, except in people's powers of reason.

jj_a_mark asks: what does the guest think of the aligning the major planets in our near future?
Richard Abanes: Well, it's happened before, without much occurring, and planetary alignment has always caused people to think the end is going to come, but nothing's ever happened. Back in the 80's, everyone freaked out about the Jupiter effect, which was one of planetary alignment, but again, nothing happened.

Timehost: By the way, where will you be New Year's Eve, and what will you be doing?
Richard Abanes: For New Year's Eve, I will be having a seven-course dinner at an exclusive California restaurant, very romantic, with my wife of 14 years, and we will ring in the new millennium together.

Timehost: Thank you very much for chatting with us! And this is our last question: why do you think some people appear to NEED to believe the end is near?
Richard Abanes: Thank you for having me. To answer the question, because life is so hard for everyone. You flip on the news, and you get high school kids being shot. You open your paycheck after a hard week's work, and you've got nothing to show for it. The world is bigger, there is information overload, people are sick and dying, and they want deliverance. And people are tired of seeing evil go unpunished. It's like, again, there's a perfect line in X-Files, when one of the characters says, "Let the end come, there's no justice in this world. There's no peace, evil's running rampant." People want to be saved.

Timehost: OK. On that note, thanks again. Have a nice New Year. And be well.